Important Ebay information - massive changes harm sellers

topic posted Wed, February 13, 2008 - 11:39 PM by  Maral
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Please delete this if it isn't allowed, but I thought that everyone should be aware of what Ebay is trying to pull. It is especially damaging to small businesses.

starherd.livejournal.com/306304.html

It's a little long, so here's the short version:

- they are reducing the listing fee by 5 cents and making Gallery free. On the surface this looks great, and this is how they are marketing the change - as a "fee reduction". However, if you read the fine print you'll find that they are raising Final Value Fees (The fee the seller pays when the item sells at auction) by as much as 33% to 66% for some sellers.

- if you have below a 95% monthly satisfaction rating on Ebay, Ebay will not display your auctions in the search engine. This seems reasonable until you consider people who don't sell in high quantities. For example, if you sell 10 items one month and 1 of them has a neutral or negative left for it by a buyer (deserved or not), you can no longer list auctions on Ebay and have them show up in the search engine, which makes it virtually impossible to improve your feedback rating since none of your items will ever sell.

- they are removing the ability for sellers to leave feedback for buyers. This despite the fact that many sellers have been burned by buyers who try to extort the sellers by threatening to leave bad feedback if they don't ship something for free, or institute fraudulent chargebacks claiming the item never arrived. This, coupled with the 95% feedback rule, means that one or two unscrupulous buyers can completely ruin a small business' reputation on Ebay and make it impossible for them to continue selling.

- if you have less than 100 total feedbacks or you have less than 95% satisfaction rating, and you sell an item, Pay Pal will not give you your money for 21 days. They are indeed expecting sellers to ship goods without pay, releasing the money only when the buyer gives positive feedback or 21 days has elapsed. How much you wanna bet that many buyers will then claim the item was not as described and have the charges reversed?

- they instituted a 15% discount as a "Seller Reward", but out of Ebay's top 500 Powersellers only SEVEN qualify for the 15% discount according to the criteria given.

Ebay claims that they're only targeting 'problem sellers', but really the ones who will suffer are the small businesses and individuals. Essentially they are making Ebay suited only for large businesses who move tens of thousands of dollars a month, and making it impossible for small businesses, hobbyists and casual sellers to function on the site.

Many sellers and buyers are holding a strike on February 18th through February 25 - that includes no buying, no listing, no selling, no auctions on those days. If you agree that these policies are NOT acceptable, please honour this boycott in order to get the message out.

Article on CNN Money; they're investigating the issue: fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/200...ion/

"I called in and spoke with ebay yesterday to voice my complaint. I was told that ebay does not consider sellers their customers, only buyers. This is amazing to me since ebay only gets revenue from sellers. The buyers are my customer, not theirs."
posted by:
Maral
Toronto
  • Did these already go into effect? I purchased something from a new seller about 10 days ago, and she was confused because paypal said that my paypal cleared, but that she hasn't gotten the money yet.

    And isn't 21 days about the amount of time you have to dispute a transaction? It just occurs to me that I told her that I was OK with her not shipping until she found out what was up with that. I mean, *I* know that paypal knows that I paid her, but she shouldn't have to worry about whether she'll be getting the money I said I paid her. I guess I'll be emailing her about this, too.


    Yeah. Ebay's not helping this buyer one little bit. I think I should write them a nice letter.


    (well, there's still tribe, bhuz and etsy.....)
    • I know that when I sold something here on Tribe, and I used PayPal. The PayPal cleared, as in PayPal took the money out of her account, but didn't deposit into my account right away, I had to wait a few days for it because I used a new account and they had to verify something. I shipped the item next day regardless though, because the issue was with PayPal not my buyer.
  • Actually, after having a seller who tried to rip me off in a laptop purchase (never gonna buy one on ebay ever again!) blackmail me into not leaving bad feedback for him by threatening my 100% positive rating with bad feedback, I am kind of glad that ebay is removing sellers' ability to do that. Seems like ebay ought to be able to track buyers' timely payments and note whether or not the buyer timely paid as promised, or whether the buyer made unreasonable demands like free shipping/fraudulent chargebacks. IMO, the buyer's feedback should not depend on what kind of feedback the buyer leaves for the seller.
    • Unfortunately there are unscrupulous people on both sides; there are non-paying buyers and ones who try to blackmail sellers, and there are sellers who ship defective items or not at all, etc. There are good and bad people on both sides of the fence, but Ebay seems to be adopting the attitude that poor innocent buyers need to be protected from the evil sellers, while sellers deserve no protection whatsoever (despite the fact that it's THEM who's paying the Ebay fees). It's ridiculously one-sided.
      • I have removed all of my ebay items, and will NOT be listing again.

        If anyone wants my beautiful things- they'll have to contact me through tribe (my website information is on my profile) or directly through my site- and I'm going to have to rely on internet advertising it looks like.....One good thing is that I can continue my 'Make Me An Offer' through my website rather than wondering if someone is going to want the item I just listed (and have to pay the fees for even if I kill the listing!)
        I've found a lot of my stock walking out the door because of the 'Make Me An Offer'.....I just want all the girls to have pretty things...*grin*

        I hope Ebay notices how many people are leaving- and has a long hard think about what they're doing. I really can't see how they are rationalising their behaviour at all, considering sellers are the ones paying them their insane amounts of money.

        I have boycotted Ebay Selling. Vote with your wallets people.
      • Ugh, I had a person buy 3 belts in about 3 minutes...which came to about 350.00, then they would not respond...I dont have many non paying bidders, so was not sure how to go about dealing with it...so I emailed ebay, and they were very crappy tome...and were not helpful at all, on how to get my final value fees back, and just did not care...I was out 36.00 all together, because of this buyer...after a lot of reading, I fianlly found out how to get my fees back...Sick!
        Gigi
  • Thats rather unfortunate...I have had a lot of good years on ebay, but lately it has just eaten away at my profit...I have been slowly moving over to etsy...it's scary though, when your customer base in on ebay...I guess I believe in my business and myself enough to try to do somthing different and see what happens...Good Luck to all you small business owners who sell on ebay...oh, by the way...that comment , SELLERS ARE NOT OUR CUSTOMERS...WHO THE HELL DO THEY GET THIER MONEY FROM????? ME, YOU, ALL THE SELLERS...Thats a bunch of crap...
    Peace, GIGI
    GIGI ORIGINALS
  • I've heard about this and have been reading the Ebay discussions board on the topic. I don't know what to do. I'm tempted to do a website but I know I won't get the exposure I get on Ebay. I'm totally against the new feedback policy. I've never heard of Etsy. I make most of my belly dance items but I also sell vintage jewelry and clothes. I really depend on my Ebay profits as I am taking care of my elderly father and don't have another job. I've had lots of good experiences selling on Ebay but I hate the new policies.
    • Thats kind of the same with me...Very good experiences...great customer relations, on the most part...but it is starting to eat up all my profits...my husband is an accountant, and he did up my #'s, and while it used to be, I was making a great earning, and loved what I did, I did not like how people would not read descriptions, and buy like a custom belt/bra and then pay...........I would say in the descp. and in the invoice, please send hip bra size...this isw a custom item...and then you would hear nothing fromhtme after 4-5 emails...then a week later.."where is my stuff, you have not sent it"?.....Drives me crazy....etsy is a place for people who make thier items...and although it is slow right now..I am grateful...I had one heck of a january and feb....over 77 custom orders....plus jusr regular orders...I hope I can build my etsy up...I also had some cards made saying I was moving...and I send themout to everyone,...and emails....So, I am closing my store but will continue to sell auction style, without being to accountable to eaby, and concentrate on vending and etsy!
      Good luck...oh yeah, etsy is just .20 a listing....!
      Gigi
    • I have a very good friend who is a jewelry maker who distributes her products almost soley on ETSY and last year....well let's just say that she could have made this her day job.

      ETSY is well respected and they do have good visibility - I would say too there's a lot less of a stigma with shoppers/buyers regarding ETSY versus EBAY.
  • How would they feel if a buyer called in and told them they were full of crap! I bet a lot of cheating buyers are out there right now, excited about the fact that they can so easily get around paying now. That's BS.
    I've started buying all of my dvds and books from Amazon. Screw Ebay.
  • Sandy (sacredgoddessonline.com) started an auction site:

    www.bazaarandbarter.com/index.php

    You get a $10 credit when you sign up, so sign-up and final value fees are totally reasonable.
    • I've now read about a few other places you can sell and this is encouraging, if they can can Ebay a run for it's money. I'm still concerned with the fact that not many people have heard of the new places and will still shop Ebay. Especially when it's all one sided for the buyers. And it's not just non paying buyer that concern me. How about the ones that email you after they recieve an item with some kind of claim that it's damaged, etc.? I have faith in my items and I offer refunds but they always want to keep it (despite the fact that they say it's damaged) and then want you to give them a partial refund AND keep the item. The big red Negative is held over your head and now there'll be no recourse for sellers in this situation.
      • Hey guys!
        I just read this thread for the first time, and I am furious!! Now I understand why there are more sellers each day that put in the profile "I am new here, but check my feedback on eBay".
        I begun selling on Etsy mainly because the fees on eBay seemed outrageous to me. I have found that Etsy is a nice community so far. Etsy's principal policy is "handmade". Also vintage and supplies items (commercial and handmade) are allowed.
        I know many belly dancing sellers make their items, so I encourage you to give Etsy a try.
        Some advantages:
        You pay $0.20 and have a 4 months-period listing and 5 pictures for free.
        You can edit your listings at any time.
        You accept any payment that is suitable for you.
        You can have retaliatory feedback removed.
        You can have your fees back if buyer doesn't pay.

        I am there since July 07 and haven't had any problem (yet). Here are some useful links:
        www.etsy.com/terms_of_use.php
        www.etsy.com/faq_selling.php
        www.etsy.com/dosdonts.php
  • I am planning on moving away from Ebay and have been selling more on these sites:

    Gothic Auctions: www.gothicauctions.com/
    Goth Auctions: www.gothauctions.com/auction...nPro.asp

    Traffic on there is a bit slow, but there are currently NO fees and more of a community there. I don't know how well bellydance items would do there, but if bellydancers start signing up....

    Right now, it is a good place to sell off items you no longer need/want...kind of like Ebay was in the early days.

    It really is virtually impossible to make money on Ebay, IMO. I'm having to bump up prices just to make anything at all, barely breaking even.

    Online WalMart is what they've become. And with the restrictions they have...forget it! All they want are the PowerSellers, who only sell....well....cheap crap.




    • I also wanted to add another comment about Etsy. It's a great site and the number of dancers shopping and selling items there seems to be growing, too, which is awesome!
      • I htink I am going to bounce over to esty right now and check it out.
        I always liked the mall shopper draw that ebay had but my sales have dropped off dramatically in the past 2 mos yet my fees are sky high. I even tried to omit my gallery pics to lessen the blow but I am curious what etsy's membership is like, esp for bellydancers.
        I am also growing tired of those bellydance sellers who list a Bellydance Dancing Skirts Tribal Cabaret Fusion Gothic SCA
        and to see 100 of them in every color and they are not bellydance, nor tribal, nor gothic, nor cabaret or what have you. They are cheap shit that only unknowing student dancers whose teacher doesnt advise them on costuming, would buy.
        vent over and out.
  • Unsu...
     
    I to have an Ebay store..And have wondered why everything has gotten so slow lately..I have over 1500 positives in a year and 1/2 And 3 negatives.Unbeknownst to me I recieved a negative a couple weeks ago from someone new with zero feedback and a memeber for under 30 days..Obviously the impact of this now my listings are not coming up..This is so unfair..Ebay & Paypal feel they work for the buyers..Hello we pay all the fees, do all the work, take all the pics and deal with all the bs..They take their money before we see a penny.If anyone has any ideas let me know..I am hoping to get off Ebay ASAP..They have become a very unfair place to do business :(
    • I would protest to eBay. Live Chat is pretty good, and you can email them. I haven't had any problems with negatives for a long time, but someone did give me a neutral for slow shipping. She got herself blasted back, because she sent her paypal payment to the wrong email address, and then the USPS "sat" on it for three days. It didn't affect my listings, but I don't have a store, I closed it because it wasn't worth it to me. I actually do better in the regular auctions.
  • belly dance items are considered high fraud items because there is a history of items not being as they are described. Paypal has been known to hold cash for 21 days or until the buyer reports that they are satisfied with their purchase by leaving positive feedback. Even if you shpped via USPS through Ebay and had a tracking number to prove that the package arrived in a timely manner.

    just one more little wrinkle. . .

    {{{HUGS}}}

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